Gaya Herrington: "Humanity’s Soul: Life or Growth?"
Episode 57
February 8, 2023
(Conversation recorded on December 29th, 2022)
Show Summary
On this episode, Nate speaks with econometrician and sustainability researcher Gaya Herrington about her new book, Five Insights for Avoiding Global Collapse, a more in-depth and personal telling of her 2021 review of the Limits to Growth (LTG). More than 50 years after the original LTG report was released, the model trajectories remain relevant - and also controversial - as we continue to track the ‘business as usual’ scenario, which results in collapse in the ‘standard run’ of the original LTG model. Are we locked in on this path and are our growth based economic systems optimized to keep us there? Is it possible to shift our goals to a different path, away from growth, focused on the well-being of all life? Can we plan or mitigate the path to descent?
About Gaya Herrington
Gaya is a Dutch econometrician, sustainability researcher, and women's rights activist. Gaya holds masters’ degrees in both econometrics and sustainability studies. After becoming disillusioned by initially working in the financial sector Gaya became the executive director of StoereVrouwen, a non-profit Dutch women's movement promoting sustainable economic policies through activism. In 2014, Herrington became the Director of Sustainability Services of KPMG. Most recently, her study on the projections made in the 1972 Limits to Growth report was widely publicized internationally. She is currently Vice President Sustainability Research at Schneider Electric.
To watch this video episode on Youtube →https://youtu.be/by5L8iFN70Q
Show Notes and Links to learn more:
00:40 - Gaya Herrington works + info
03:02 - Limits to Growth Report, Gaya’s update on LtG, Dennis Meadows + TGS Episode
14:10 - Planetary Boundaries
14:30 - S-Curve
16:05 - Overshoot Date
16:40 - Breaking Boundaries
19:16 - Technology takes a long time - fusion breakthrough
21:15 - Donella Meadows - black box/systems dynamics
23:55 - Gaya’s Book: Five Insights for Avoiding Global Collapse
25:20 - Homo economicus
27:58 - Once physcial needs are met, social needs are more about purpose and less about materials
29:20 - Reports studying trickle down economics and negative effects of income inequality (reduced trust in others and government, environmental effects)
30:10 - Thorstein Veblen, conspicuous consumption
30:58 - Increase in social inequality
31:10 - Reduced social capital
31:55 - Climate action requires significant decrease in global consumption
32:55 - Circular economy
34:23 - Income inequality erodes the middle - women coming out 50/50, while men are impacted more with 30/70
38:43 - NOT For Sale Frankly
42:04 - Nate’s Paper and Video on the Superorganism
44:48 - How money is actually made (by banks, not the Fed)
46:25 - Discussions on financially valuing nature
49:09 - Resource scare of the 70s
53:14 - Club of Rome
54:07 - Transformational Economics Committee, EarthforAll book
55:24 - 5 leverage points in the global system
57:05 - The benefits of empowering women
57:25 - Domination vs partnership mindsets in organizing society
1:02:05 - Well-being economy
1:02:16 - Doughnut Economics, Kate Raworth
1:02:26 - Mariana Mazzucato
1:02:37 - Mission Economics
1:02:57 - Riane Eisler
1:06:39 - New Zealand government well being principles
1:06:54 - Bhutan’s interest in well-being governments
1:11:40 - ESGs
1:11:55 - More environmentally conscious companies have been shown to perform better
1:12:33 - Europe’s regulations moving towards circularity
1:24:45 - Why do humans innovate