Audrey Tang —  Digital Democracy: Moving Beyond ‘Big Tech’ to Save Open Societies




Episode 169
March 26th, 2025

(Conversation recorded on March 4th, 2025)  

Show Summary

As the world is increasingly shaped by the dominance of ‘Big Tech’ – including the race for Artificial Intelligence – the outsized impact on our democratic and information systems has left many with fears and confusion about the path forward. But what if we could use technology as a tool that helps preserve the values of democracy and increases civic engagement, rather than eroding them? Furthermore, what sorts of people, projects, and policies are already paving the way? 

Today Nate is joined by Taiwanese Digital Ambassador at large, Audrey Tang, to explore real-world examples of how technology is being leveraged globally to address – and in some cases reverse – critical societal challenges, such as polarization, misinformation, and the erosion of trust in governments and institutions.Tang emphasizes the importance of digital democracy, civic engagement, and incentivizing care in our policy making decisions to create a better experience and world for all humans.

Is it possible to use social media as a tool that unifies citizens across polarized societies? How could technology be used to amplify the voices of citizens and influence policy making with human and planetary well-being in mind? And finally, even as technological corporations continue to consolidate power, what options are available to individuals who want to engage with technology in new and empowering ways? 

About Audrey Tang

Audrey Tang is Taiwan’s Cyber Ambassador-at-large and was the first Digital Minister of Taiwan. Audrey is celebrated for their pioneering efforts in digital freedom. Named one of TIME’s “100 Most Influential People in AI” in 2023, Tang was instrumental in shaping Taiwan’s internationally acclaimed COVID-19 response and in safeguarding the 2024 presidential and legislative elections from foreign cyber interference. Audrey is now focused on broadening their vision of Plurality — technology for collaborative diversity — to inspire global audiences.

Show Notes & Links to Learn More

PDF Transcript

00:00 - Audrey Tang

03:10 - Ministry of Digital Affairs of Taiwan

03:34 - Sunflower Movement, Occupy Parliament

04:24 - Chinese data monitoring practices

06:02 - Reverse Mentorship in Taiwan

06:28 - vTaiwan work on Uber, Pandemic Management in Taiwan, and Generative AI

06:41 - Taiwan government approval rating

07:48 - Postmodernism

11:20 - National Participation Platform

16:36 - Bowling Green, Kentucky

17:11 - Citizens’ Assembly

17:42 - Deliberative Democracy Lab, Research on Citizens Assembly

19:50 - Conversation Networks Paper

20:19 - Assistive Intelligence

21:56 - g0v.tw (Gov Zero), Polis

25:40 - Nora Bateson, TGS Episode, Warm Data Labs

28:07 - Taiwan prioritizing civic competencies in education

29:14 - Taiwan standardized test Scores

29:33 - Taiwan least polarized among OECD equivalents

30:19 - Pre-bunking

31:33 - SARS

32:13 - Shiba-inu Mask Campaign

33:35 - Plurality, Glen Weyl

38:37 - Prosocial Media Paper

40:23 - Project Liberty Institute, plans to buy TikTok

41:55 - Linkedin algorithmic differences towards social cohesion

43:33 - Bluesky, Truth Social

46:34 - When Product Markets Become Collective Traps: The Case of Social Media 

52:58 - Cybernetics etymology

58:45 - Tradition of citizen assemblies in Japan

59:53 - Citizen assemblies in Oregon

1:00:32 - Jigsaw sensemaking

1:02:02 - Cortico

1:04:13 - How to turn on gray scale

1:06:57 - Tristan Harris, TGS Episode

1:09:44 - Martial Law

1:14:44 - Dynamic facilitation, Focused conversation method, Group facilitation techniques

1:17:18 - Active Listening

1:17:55 - Daniel Schmachtenberger, TGS Episodes

1:19:25 - Taiwanese students changing school start times, Menstruation museum

1:20:05 - People, Power, Change: Organizing for Democratic Renewal
1:21:26 - Good Enough Ancestor

1:22:26 - Leonard Cohen

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